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English Welcome to China~

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old Re: Welcome to China~

Sniper
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this is stupid -.-

china is a country which is debated mostly about the human rights. Also a big problem there is the liberty of the press ever heard of this? china is changing the news for u just let informations away. The us have got the MOST liberty of the press its one of the highest rights there (they also can make news about hitler/nazis etc).

but i cant believe that every country including the US has got a perfext liberty of press.



well , im not a friend of the ones who talk about the global warming. ITS FACT the the temperature has raised 3° C since the history of 100 years wether notes in germany.
And its for sure that it is caused by CO2 emmisions. and the stupid think ive ever heard is you comment

"Our Co2 emitions are NOT whats causing the tempratures to rise, just compare the rising of tempratures and the rising of solar activity. They fit together PERFECTLY. "

old Re: Welcome to China~

jeepohahyo
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The sun activity has risen to the same amount as of 1200 and we don't have any historical documents which state any disastrous weather changes (which should occur during a phase of global warming)
We should have reports en masse if there had ever been any warming. You see that sun activity is not so relevant.

Wiki says: About 16% to 36% of Global warming are sun-related. That means max.one of three degrees, duh.

http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Image:Carbon-14_with_activity_labels.png << This is the diagram, I used. The concentration of C14 in the atmosphere and living matter is a measurement for the amount of cosmic rays emitted by the sun hitting the atmosphere.

old Re: Welcome to China~

humer
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I didn't say that china has to slow down their economy that would also be a catastrophe, but they could take the problem a little bit more seriously not only china also other countries.

Of course the co2 emissions and other greenhouse gases are among other things reasons for higher temperatueres.

The solar activity is a natural process that we can't prevent. Actually you're right but you should consider the whole process. It starts with the sun which "heats" the earth through her sunrays. These sunrays are reflected on the earth' surface by about 50%. But not only the sun emanates also the earth. The problem is that these rays can't break through the atmosphere because they are reflected back to the earth by the greenhouse gases which finally causes the higher tempratures. This hasn't to be prooved because it's just logical.

I hope you can understand everything because my englisch is not so good.

old Re: Welcome to China~

Lee
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@Sniper:
And exactly who told you China has the least freedom of the press and the US have the highest? CNN? MSNBC? FOX? Maybe the constitution?

Alryt, I'll just take down each of those one by one. If you really believe that the United States has the greatest freedom of the press just because the press themselves told you, then you really don't have much regards to common sense. Do you seriously think America's as liberal as you believe it is? Look back into history and just look at how many cases of Utilitarian violation of individual rights "justified" with the hypocritical mask of this slogan. "For the greatest good"

Go back to the US violation of Cuba's sovereignty. Do you really believe that Cuba would have pledged loyalty to the soviet sphere of influence just because? The whole entire western hemisphere's polarized in the US ideal. A pledge to the soviets would be pretty much suicidal. So why have they done so? Little do most Americans know, a company of American born cubans were sent into Cuba after Castro's take over. Why? Because Castro didn't like a few things that the US have done and the United States decided to reinstall a more favorable leader. Also known as a puppet government. Of course this plan failed due to intelligence leak but none-the-less, the American people were kept in the dark about the event. Even into the 21st century, our government continued to assert that an invasion on Cuba never happened. The Bay of Pigs, as alleged by the US, was completely nonexistent. So were those 1400 men who landed in Cuba.

Let me ask you then, do you really believe the United States is better then any other nations? There are a whole scores of classified information that have only been recently acknowledged, yet you choose to elude all of the wrongs committed by the American Government, and instead take on the hypocritical overview that the Chinese Freedom of Press is inequitable to those found in America. Well the censorship in China was carried out under the same purpose, yet we never once mask out our atrocities with a hypocritical mask just so our population will become the world's most ethnocentric people to have ever met the world.

Please don't judge other nations without knowing the crimes committed by your own countries.

Humanitarian rights...
How can you accuse the Chinese of Humanitarian violations if:
1. The U.S. Refused to sign a legislation in the UN which requires a nation to recognize and apologize for its past crimes.
2. The U.S. college admission system is still racially divided and have been openly acknowledged several times in both the house and the senate and have all been either voted down or have been laid back onto the table every time the sponsorship speech was made.
3. The U.S. history of classicism, racism, and other social inequalities have plagued the world for centuries
4. The failure to recognize the annihilation of 90% of all the native American population
5. Reluctance to openly recognize the several Systematic Genocides starting with the Armenian at the end of the 1st world war that have plagued the 20th and the 21st century
6. And the reluctance of its own citizens to conform to a humanitarian social order.

There are much more that I can go on about the inhumanity side of the US. Yet instead of addressing these issues, you decided to just go on randomly accusing other nations of humanitarian violations.

What this does prove is this, Americans are Hypocrites, and as an American myself I do so openly acknowledge this fact. Please be more educated on a topic before criticizing other nations

old Re: Welcome to China~

jeepohahyo
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And exactly who told you China has the least freedom of the press and the US have the highest? CNN? ABC? FOX? Maybe the constitution?

Common sense. Any country which holds journalists in prison just because they did thair jobs right and faithfully can't have much freedom of press/speech

And: What are the latest news from the next weeks that didn't say that the other states are bad and evil and China is great and good?

EDIT: Oh okay, you live in America. Out of the censored area. Nevermind.

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If you really believe that the United States has the greatest freedom of the press just because the press themselves told you, then you really don't have much regards to common sense. Do you seriously think America's as liberal as you believe it is? Look back into history and just look at how many cases of Utilitarian violation of individual rights "justified" with the hypocritical mask of this slogan. "For the greatest good"

China didn't?
Why does China have concentration camps then?
And why fight chinese soldiers against peaceful monks who don't even carry guns?

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Go back to the US violation of Cuba's sovereignty. Do you really believe that Cuba would have pledged loyalty to the soviet sphere of influence just because? The whole entire western hemisphere's polarized in the US ideal. A pledge to the soviets would be pretty much suicidal. So why have they done so? Little do most Americans know, a company of American born cubans were sent into Cuba after Castro's take over. Why? Because Castro didn't like a few things that the US have done and the United States decided to reinstall a more favorable leader. Also known as a puppet government. Of course this plan failed due to intelligence leak but none-the-less, the American people were kept in the dark about the event. Even into the 21st century, our government continued to assert that an invasion on Cuba never happened. The Bay of Pigs, as alleged by the US, was completely nonexistent. So were those 1400 men who landed in Cuba.

Well, people get crazy when they sit on shitloads of atomic bombs.
The Cold War is over. Nobody should use nuclear weapons anymore and the disarmment should continue.

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Let me ask you then, do you really believe the United States is better then any other nations?

No, but not worse either.

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There are a whole scores of classified information that have only been recently acknowledged, yet you choose to elude all of the wrongs committed by the American Government, and instead take on the hypocritical overview that the Chinese Freedom of Press is inequitable to those found in America. Well the censorship in China was carried out under the same purpose, yet we never once mask out our atrocities with a hypocritical mask just so our population will become the world's most ethnocentric people to have ever met the world.

Buy an orange chest, stand on it at a marketplace and tell the people your opinion. You can do it.
f you do it in China, and they don't like your opinions, ou'll just disappear and whither away in prison.

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Please don't judge other nations without knowing the crimes committed by your own countries.

Germany can't even commit crimes after World War II, our humble military force could never stand a aggressive fight.

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Humanitarian rights...
How can you accuse the Chinese of Humanitarian violations if:
1. The U.S. Refused to sign a legislation in the UN which requires a nation to recognize and apologize for its past crimes.

How is this bill exactly called? I want to look it up.

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2. The U.S. college admission system is still racially divided and have been openly acknowledged several times in both the house and the senate and have all been either voted down or have been laid back onto the table every time the sponsorship speech was made.

I don't know the US college laws, sorry.
If it's true, then use your democratic powers to change something.

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3. The U.S. history of classicism, racism, and other social inequalities have plagued the world for centuries

4. The failure to recognize the annihilation of 90% of all the native American population

It's history. It's abot crimes in the present.

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5. Reluctance to openly recognize the several Systematic Genocides starting with the Armenian at the end of the 1st world war that have plagued the 20th and the 21st century

Eum... Everyone does?
I don't know about the American people, but whenever a German is just called a "nazi", or whenever comemmorate the victims of Shoa and war we still feel our guilt.

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6. And the reluctance of its own citizens to conform to a humanitarian social order.

Eum... Please explain, I don't get your sentence.

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There are much more that I can go on about the inhumanity side of the US. Yet instead of addressing these issues, you decided to just go on randomly accusing other nations of humanitarian violations.

You mainly talked about the past. We can only change the present and the future.

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What this does prove is this, Americans are Hypocrites, and as an American myself I do so openly acknowledge this fact. Please be more educated on a topic before criticizing other nations

I'm open to any facts which I can't prove wrong.
Thank you for getting personal by the way, Mr Ubereducated
A non-native speaker is easily handicapped on such discussions.

old Re: Welcome to China~

HW
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leegao:
Sniper is from Germany. In Germany, we don't have MSNBC or Fox. We do have access to CNN, however I know of noone who would watch it and take it seriously. When it comes to English television, the BBC is much better, I'd say.
Furthermore, he only stated that the US's press rights were more liberal than in other countries. He did not state that this was also true for other fields of rights, nor that the official American press was better than any other press because of this, nor that all of the US's politics was good, nor that the US was generally better than China or any other country, and he probably also did not mean anything like this. By the way, as Sniper is actually German (you can see this in his profile, there is even a link to Google Maps there), you cannot accuse him for the American crimes you listed. Which, of course, doesn't mean that these things weren't wrong, they just don't apply to Sniper.
As for what he actually said, he might very well be true. I don't know about press policies in any other countries, but I do know that the American press rights are certainly less restrictive than German ones (German constitution forbids the negation of the holocaust).
However, official American broadcasters like the CNN do tend to hide information themselves. Not because they aren't allowed to do otherwise, but because they are directly controlled by the state.

I don't know exactly about the legal situation in China, but there are several facts which I know for sure:
• It is common knowledge that any communist state, be it the Soviet Union, the German Democratic Republic, as well as any other state which was under control of the Soviet Union, like Cuba or even China back in those times, suffered enormous censorship in order to sustain the communist regime. Of course, the people living in those countries never knew about this censorship until the communist regime finally broke down (if at all).
• It is known that Chinese ISPs filter certain blacklisted pages which oppose the Chinese government. It is also known that Chinese Google servers filter search results in cooperation with the Chinese government.

I have heard of more extreme policies, but I do not know for sure whether these are true, so I will leave them out of the question.

old Re: Welcome to China~

Lee
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Dicker:

First of all I'm using the presumption that the contender of this speech is an American. If you're not, read my contentions as if it were addressed at another American.

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Common sense. Any country which holds journalists in prison just because they did thair jobs right and faithfully can't have much freedom of press/speech

And: What are the latest news from the next weeks that didn't say that the other states are bad and evil and China is great and good?


In this case the US also grants immunity to certain personnel who can rightfully detain journalists. Also journalists who do find out something special about the government usually ends up in court and sentenced to anywhere from 3 month to life. Take a look at the espionage period, several rogue agents are still held in maximum security prison when they too act as journalists. So then again we can also hold US to this. And recently in 05, a journalist was imprisoned for uncovering the identity of an agent to the public

Also, justifying a point by stating it is common sense is unempirical and is therefore not a valid point

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China didn't?
Why does China have concentration camps then?
And why fight chinese soldiers against peaceful monks who don't even carry guns?


I never said China didn't, I'm just saying the US did. =]

Also, I seriously don't see why you shouldn't also bring up the soviet attack on Chechnya, the unjustifiable US invasion on the middle-east region (starting from the 70's onward) and other atrocities committed by other countries. Hey, why not talk about the US concentration camp? Bush himself didn't mind us torturing prisoners, why would he mind other countries doing so?

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Well, people get crazy when they sit on shitloads of atomic bombs.
The Cold War is over. Nobody should use nuclear weapons anymore and the disarmment should continue.


1961, Cuba was neutral, there were no nuclear devices in Cuba at that time. =]
Also, while nuclear proliferation is still going on, the UN never passed a mandate for global proliferation, and it is yet still unjustifiable to take pre-emptive action against countries who are seeking to develop military grade nuclear technology. The Cold War is over, but the nukes are still here.

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Buy an orange chest, stand on it at a marketplace and tell the people your opinion. You can do it.
f you do it in China, and they don't like your opinions, ou'll just disappear and whither away in prison.


There's a dramatic different between the freedom of speech and the freedom of the press. Also, note the rights given out for the freedom of speech under the constitution is still not fully endorsed. Meaning there are still restrictions on our right of speech.

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Germany can't even commit crimes after World War II, our humble military force could never stand a aggressive fight.


I'll be sure to remember to post something for you next time I'm replying to someone else so you won't get bored


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How is this bill exactly called? I want to look it up.

The same bill to recognize the Armenian Genocide. In which the United States rejected in 1982 due to fear that they will have to recognize their own atrocities committed during the Native American resettlement.

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If it's true, then use your democratic powers to change something.


As I've already said, this bill has been brought up many times but have all being either voted down or remained inactive on the table.

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It's history. It's abot crimes in the present.


Therefore the racial segregation of the 20th century, the massive systematic murder of native Americans, and much more can not be compared to the Chinese' attempt at protecting what it believes to be its territory? Hey, if you don't want to talk about the past then lets go back just a few years. In Texas actually. In Waco, a group of over 200 religious minority were "accidentally" killed because the US didn't like them. Hmmm, isn't that violating the constitutional freedom of religion? Yet we weren't allowed to protect our interests?

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Eum... Everyone does?
I don't know about the American people, but whenever a German is just called a "nazi", or whenever comemmorate the victims of Shoa and war we still feel our guilt.


1982, the United States vetoed a motion passed in the Security Council to forcibly make Turkey recognize the Armenian Genocide. It wasn't passed until it was voted again the General Assembly where there were no veto powers. This time the US abstained from the vote, also we claimed to have been for the recognition.

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Eum... Please explain, I don't get your sentence.


People would rather criticize other nations than to look at the disorder in their own.

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You mainly talked about the past. We can only change the present and the future.


Therefore we should disregard history as a completely useless tool that will never be able to aid us in determining our future. Yes, we can't change the past, no, that does not make the past useless. As far as I'm concerned, no one has the right to say the US is better than China without recognizing that US itself is less than liberal. Sniper obviously have not and neither have a lot of people.


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It is common knowledge that any communist state, be it the Soviet Union, the German Democratic Republic, as well as any other state which was under control of the Soviet Union, like Cuba or even China back in those times, suffered enormous censorship in order to sustain the communist regime. Of course, the people living in those countries never knew about this censorship until the communist regime finally broke down (if at all).
It is known that Chinese ISPs filter certain blacklisted pages which oppose the Chinese government. It is also known that Chinese Google servers filter search results in cooperation with the Chinese government.


I do agree, I have never stated that China itself is not to be blamed. Yes it is a socialist country, but that doesn't mean we are anarchists or tyrants. Yet Sniper's overview that the Chinese are considerably less equitable than the United States without sufficient warrants while maintaining that the United States is the best country in the world feels indirectly hypocritical. What this basically boils down to is the following observation:

A utilitarian society is significantly better than a socialist country.

And I have to disagree with this because it does feel a bit ethnocentric as well as bringing back remnants of McCarthyism to my mind.
edited 1×, last 11.08.08 10:07:33 pm

old Re: Welcome to China~

HW
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leegao, I must find your rhethorical tactics quite ludicrous. First you accuse Sniper of blaming other states of their faults instead of acknowledging the faults of his own home (at least of the country you thought was his home), and now you yourself try to deflect the topic from China's faults to those of America.

Please stop talking about America when the actual topic is China. Everyone knows America did and does things extremely wrong and noone, I presume, would deny this. But this is not the topic here, the topic is what China does wrong.
Edit: Yes, actually the topic are the olympic games in China. However this and what China does wrong are quite closely related.

old Re: Welcome to China~

Lee
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Yet during Sniper's extension to the topic, he specifically stated that America is the most liberal country and therefore China could not compare. First remember that I myself am an American and that I am more American than I am Chinese (quite literally)

Therefore my point would basically be summed up to this: If you want to Criticize China for their humanitarian defects by comparing China to the United States, and yet you refuse to recognize America's faults (Quote: America.. has got the highest RIGHTS there) then you really don't have the right to criticize China.

Of course Dicker then contended my point therefore I'm obligated to make a defense or else concede that America is perfect.

old Re: Welcome to China~

mitnick
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I don't know the reason why everybody likes talk about things between countries....

Why not tell something about the games....?

What's more....My English is very poor....sometimes I even don't know what you said....haha~~~

old Re: Welcome to China~

lenz-_-
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yesterday i watched the gymnastics between the germans, the russians and the americans think was, the americans were quite good

old Re: Welcome to China~

mitnick
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I got a job in this summer holidays...
So I have no time to watch the games in the day time

Just now I came back home and the Chinese women ' s volleyball lost.........
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